Cool Cleveland Interview
Alternative Press Editor-in-Chief Jason Pettigrew

For 20 years, Alternative Press magazine has been ahead of the curve when it comes to rock talent bubbling up from deep underground. Careers have started for many at AP, not only for musicians, but for top entertainment journalists and photographers in the country as well. And best of all, this national music mag launched itself and emergent musical talent right here in Cleveland, Ohio.

At the top of that journalistic heap sits Jason Pettigrew, AP Editor-In-Chief and shrewd underground music pundit. Known for insightful reviews and interviews with teeth—some biting, others gnashing—his wit is equally razor-sharp. He recently talked to Cool Cleveland about the anatomy of the Cleveland music scene, this summer’s co-sponsored College Music Journal (CMJ) Rock Hall MusicFest showcase, trends, do-it-yourself ethos and AP’s impending 20th Anniversary.

Cool Cleveland: You have a perception and a position within the Cleveland arts community as a music industry insider. You're also a long time native. So, why does Cleveland have an inferiority complex to the degree that it does?

Jason Pettigrew: I think that local bands that are doing interesting things—like Disengage, Keelhaul, This Moment In Black History, Cobra Verde, the Lovekill—don’t worry about that at all. They have enough passion about what they do, that they are willing to put themselves through enough craziness to get out there and take their art to the world.

I spoke with a good friend of mine based in Cleveland who is the finest behind-the-scenes guy a band could ever want in their corner. He told me that Cleveland has no “winners" - success stories that made it and then stayed here to impart their wisdom. He said, "U2 are still very much active in the Dublin music scene...one of those guys can walk into a club, listen to somebody, and, if they hear something, help nurture that talent." The lack of a winning team [in Cleveland] makes people feel like it will never happen here.

Recently, you spoke to an A&R person who said the last Cleveland music showcase "was like being trapped in a community haunted house that was more embarrassing than scary." I'm certain they didn't mean that in a retro sort of way...
I was told there was one, um, “hotly tipped” local band that played some anachronistic nü metal while being joined onstage by what was described to me as “a Jesus impersonator mascot doing shamanic dancing.” I don’t know, Pete...why does Cleveland have an inferiority complex?

Point taken. That "why not here?" question always gets tossed around in Cleveland relative to Rock Hall inductions and other similarly high-profile music events. So, if the “home team” would rather “play away and stay away” and industry insiders have serious criticisms of events like last year's Cleveland Music Festival; does the end result justify the means?
Let’s forget about the events themselves, for a moment. Could it be that, a) most Clevelanders are more worried about how they’re going to pay their bills than to learn about what cool bands are in town, b) their entire interest in music is as casual as going out to get a Big Mac, or c) they’re mostly a bunch of tasteless rubes that only want to revisit the dog shit of their youth, which sucked the first time around?

Scene magazine still gets letters telling them their paper sucks because they don’t recognize “the genius” of Trans-Siberian Orchestra and they don’t send a reviewer when some faded hair-metal band—with one original member remaining—comes to town. Why are cover bands like Wish You Were Here so popular in this town? “Because, they only play good music, like the old days, maaan.” Fuck you, buddy: ever heard Porcupine Tree? How are organizers supposed to reach out to these people? I’d start with everyone telling all their buddies to subscribe to satellite radio, because commercial radio in this town is a contributing factor to crap tastes.

I love Porcupine Tree, but never hear them on the radio here. Steven Wilson contributes to another one of my other “do-it-yourself” favorites, Marillion… OK, so you've been to CMJ, to South by Southwest and a slew of other showcase-style events. In a knowledge-sharing and best practices sort of way, what can be done better in hosting, structuring and organizing these types of events in Cleveland?
I think there needs to be a more stringent weeding-out process for bands playing showcases. I can sell all of the discs in my office at Half Price Books to pay for a [Cleveland Music Festival] registration fee to have my wife and I play kazoos for 40 minutes at some club—

I’d pay to see that...but again, point taken—
Instead of having panels that nobody learns from, why not have local bands play two songs in front of a panel of intelligently chosen industry types, a la American Idol? Call it “Reality Check.” Somebody who will say, “Your bass player is fat, you’re in your thirties and you’re wearing make-up. Who do you think is handing out million-dollar deals for goth-rock in 2005?” Kill off these bands that are long on cash and favors-owed, but way short on talent. Like my friend says, “A lot of bands in this town have never been told they need work, they suck or they should stick to their day job, because nobody wants to come off sounding like a prick.”

More importantly, I think we should stop believing that tired “Home of Rock and Roll” chamber-of-commerce, travel-brochure bullshit, unless we are going to do something about it. What can industry professionals do to teach our constituents that a) music did not end when they graduated from high school or college, b) they are depriving themselves of aesthetic and cultural enrichment, and c) that art in any medium is an experience worth showing up for? If we can’t sufficiently do that—the way they’ve done in Austin—we’re just pointlessly lighting barrels of cash on fire.

Do you have a sense of expectations for the upcoming CMJ/Rock Hall MusicFest showcase here June 9-11?
I expect that, in many cases, some bands will be playing to each other’s entourages. This is not a dis at CMJ or the Rock Hall. But sometimes the obvious escapes all of us, this ranter included. The city’s constituents need to be educated as to of what the CMJ event means for Cleveland. Your average Clevelander has never been to a music-industry conference. They have had no massive exposure to a scope of different genres of music and artists. Clevelanders will support winners and popular events, so long as they see a chance to get bragging rights.

Has the collective at Alternative Press considered utilizing its intellectual capital and industry knowledge to take on a music showcase similar to the CMJ?
It’s crazy enough trying to run a magazine with only 15 fulltime people. The logistics of a huge event seem terrifying to me. Some things I can’t see delegating to people. I can hear the message-board bitching now: “AP took our $500 fee and put our techno-pop band on a showcase with Blood Priest and Corpse Vomit.” And it would be the first time we heard about it, way after the fact. And don’t forget the politics: Say the CEO of a big mega-sponsor has a nephew who plays in a Creed cover band and they need a gig to work out their, ahem, “originals.” Catch my drift?

Quite so. AP has had long-term success headquartered here. There has to be some appeal, aside from affordability and financial benefit. So, why stay in Cleveland?
The biggest thing is that being here gives you a sense of grounding...we weren’t frequently visited by label employees and managers playing us with expensive lunches, dinners, and a good table at a strip club — unlike people who work in commercial radio, most of whom need to be taken down to Public Square and given the Mussolini head-kick treatment. We’ve sorted through hype fairly well and didn’t rely on some metropolitan hipster from New York or Los Angeles telling us what was “Fantastic! You need to get on this.” Really, who bought [five] different covers of SPIN with a different Strokes member on them? On their second album? I rest my fucking case.

AP's 20th Anniversary is next year. Any big plans you can share? Perhaps another weekend outdoor music event like you had in the Flats 10 years ago?
There are plans afoot for some sort of soirée, but as I am learning right now, there are so many variables and mitigating factors that abound, so whatever I tell you now would be wrong 10 minutes from now. I promise to email you when I get some solid information. There will be something happening — you only turn 20 once.

For a while, AP appeared to experience an editorial pendulum swing, with more of a focus on specific market trends. What factors brought the pendulum back, and what do you ultimately attribute the magazine's long-term success to?
The massive consolidation of magazine distributors in the mid-'90s, as well as the concept of order-regulating — the number of copies carried is determined by your sell-through — forced us to do things like chase “celebrities” in order to stay on the racks. We finally stopped trying to be everything to everybody, and focus on one thing.

And we learned to evolve: the Lollapalooza generation has mortgages, insurance policies and, in many cases, kids who need college funds. Music doesn’t mean as much to them like it did 10-15 years ago. So why put Jane’s Addiction or the Chili Peppers on the cover? Music is a generational thing, and each generation has its own culture. We recognize that, and have acted accordingly.

You have been entrenched in the national scene for a long time, so you have the benefit of seeing movements and trends in their beginning stages. What do you see as the next high-profile trend?
I ask myself this daily. Now that we are seeing many of these punk/pop-punk/post-punk/emo/post-hardcore bands getting offered a lot of money by major labels; it will be interesting to see if the fans will be there to carry the momentum. I would like to posit that the future will not have anything to do with Fred Durst.

Sales of recorded music in the US have dropped by over 100 million units in the past two years. Experts give different reasons for the decline. The music industry itself blames its customers, downloading free music from file-sharing networks. Customers blame the quality of artistic output and the expense. Does the truth in the decline lie somewhere in the middle?
The big middle, definitely. Any version of the “Grand Theft Auto” video game is more interesting than going to see nearly any band currently played on commercial radio. I really don’t see too many of the indie labels complaining about downloading, as their music is finally getting heard out there. I never understood why majors would sign interesting bands, and then take all of their money paying off radio programmers to get airplay for the baby food. Who remembers Deep Blue Something? I wanna see what kind of career trajectory Maroon 5 and Three Doors Down are going to have. Those bands won’t even go down in flames — their demise will be as tumultuous as a parakeet fart.

How do you think the iPod and the downloading trend—now in full swing—will change how your specific target audience consumes and experiences music, if at all? And how will AP adjust for such changes, if and when they come?

I think people are always going to want to know what is out there for downloading. They see some band written up in our mag, like our annual “100 Bands You Need to Know” issue, go visit each site, and make their decision about the band immediately. No vacuous Clear Channel shill necessary. The only disheartening thing is that there doesn’t seem to be too much respect for the tangible artifact. Buying a download seems so... clinical.

As far as adjusting for changes, we pride ourselves on knowing what’s going on within certain scenes. I know an editor of a metal magazine whose favorite bands are Cheap Trick and Guided By Voices. That’s like me working for Scientific American, when my high-school chemistry grades were lower than the sixth letter of the alphabet.

Do you get a lot of unsolicited demos, local and otherwise, and has there been an increase in number of them with better technology and what do you do with them?
We did start a section in the mag called AP A&R, where we spotlight a new band’s demos. We do listen to everything we get for that section. If your band sounds like Nickelback, please save your postage. In fact, please stop wasting resources and jump off a bridge. Do it now.

It's a much different music industry than it was when you started out with AP. What advice would you give to upstart musicians today, from your more underground perspective?
Do everything yourself until it hurts. Learn how the business works by doing it: book your own tours, learn the recording and manufacturing process and understand where that money goes, oversee the creation of your merchandise and make all of your own decisions—aesthetic and otherwise—before you decide you need a manager, a booking agent or a label deal. The internet is your friend: Create your own universe and people will find out about you.
http://www.alternativepress.com/sections/homepage/11-30-1999/index.asp

From Cool Cleveland contributor Peter Chakerian peter_chakerian@yahoo.com

Photo by Emily Pettigrew

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