Jim Rokakis, Part 2

Cool Cleveland: What does the word Regionalism mean to you?
Jim Rokakis: Regionalism to me is a belief that we have to take the region’s dwindling resources and put them to work collectively for the betterment of all Northeast Ohio. In 1970, 40% of the county total came from the City of Cleveland; in the last collection, it was 17% which means there is not much left. So, in order to support the school system on a rapidly declining tax base...when you pass a mill in Cleveland, you collect $6 million, and a mill in the County collects $33 million. Not only do tax values decline, but 36% of the property in Cleveland doesn’t pay taxes. Religious, non-profit, civic, educational, and hospitals - they don’t pay taxes. And over $2 billion is not collected because of the city’s aggressive tax abatement program, out of a total of $5 billion. Then consider Westlake with its 31,000 tax payers; if approached, it has one-quarter the value of the entire city of Cleveland with 450,000 residents.

Why did you commission this study from Policy Matters to study how other cities use pilot programs to address the non-profit issue?
I wanted to see what tools were available to cities like Cleveland which could result in raising revenues that would go to the public schools. I wanted to see if we could come up with one additional tool to help the Cleveland kids.

What did the study cost?
It cost $25,000.

Who paid for it, and was it county money?
I approached Bear Stearns and other financial institutions to see if they would pay for the study, and they were very gracious.

You’ve offered some provocative ideas on how to consolidate the various library systems in order to save money. Many of the libraries in this region have won awards and are considered best in their class nationally. And the libraries are obviously supported and patronized strongly by the community, which passes library levies almost automatically. Why would you want to mess with that kind of success?

Because when I raised the issue, I was relatively certain that the funding libraries had come to rely upon, which is the LLGSF [Local Library Government Support Fund] from the State, with about $67 million provided to libraries, accounts for about half their budgets. It became clear to me that this funding was in serious jeopardy. Not only in jeopardy of being reduced, which I feel is an absolute certainty, but also the possibility of being eliminated entirely. But I also disagree with one of the premises of your question; I don’t feel that these people will continue to support these libraries indefinitely. A Cleveland resident pays more for their libraries than any other community in the State of Ohio. It is a superb system, but the majority of people who use the Downtown Cleveland Public Library are suburbanites. They have this excellent system where you can take out a book anywhere. But why does a resident of Cleveland pay three times more than a resident of Parma? And when, not if, the government support is cut, do we go back to the Cleveland resident and ask them to cough up 3 or 4 mills, plus another 11 mills for the Cleveland Public School System? And because of this “red” revolution that has taken over the State and certainly the Federal government, we are being left with some very unpalatable solutions.

You scared a lot of people with your proposal on the Libraries.
I admit that I may not have been the most articulate guy when I raised this. When I did raise the issue, I may have frightened library patrons around the County when I made this proposal; but I can tell you with certainty that this funding they rely upon will be reduced this summer. So, here you have this revolution-gone-crazy in Columbus, where they are going to eliminate the Personal Property Tax on the equipment, inventory and machinery on businesses, and they don’t have any idea how they are going to replace that tax revenue. You can go to http://www.MVRPC.org, the Miami Valley Regional Planning Commission; they've put a tool on their site where you can scroll to see what the effects will be, and what will happen when they cut the Local Government fund. One part shows the effect on cities, and the other shows the effect on libraries - it is devastating.

What other areas do you think might be ripe for consolidation?
If we can’t cooperate on something as relatively benign as library books, just think how difficult it will be on police and fire. We’re sitting at the corner of W. 117th & Detroit, and within four or five blocks there are two fire departments. I realize this debate doesn’t have any traction now, but after the cuts come in July, maybe we can sit down and talk about it. I abhor what these people have done in Columbus, and I think we should fight to the death, but these cuts are coming. And I think we should have a plan for when the cuts come.

Why are you doing this?
They say I’m ego-driven. What? So I can continue to be the tax collector. I’ve been in government service for 27 years and I’ve worked my way up to being the tax collector?

You’ve taken on the powers-that-be in Cleveland by suggesting that non-profit organizations such as The Cleveland Clinic pay their fair share in the form of voluntary fees, which happens in cities like Baltimore. How has this proposal gone over in our part of the world?
Well, in order for this proposal to work, we need the support of the Mayor and the superintendent of schools.

Do you have their support?

My goal in announcing the study was very modest. I was hoping that the schools could raise $5 to $6 million a year in voluntary payments, similarly to the City of Pittsburgh which is raising $6 million a year through voluntary payments. Shortly after I announced this program in July, and before the study was released in December, a well-known Cleveland attorney spoke with me and said there could be support at the highest levels at the Clinic to participate in such a program. I asked this attorney to wait until the study was released and we could discuss it. Just after it was released, this attorney set up a meeting with Cleveland Clinic officials and talked generally about a dollar amount; I can tell you that the officials were pleased with the modest scope of the program I was suggesting. Soon after, the attorney called me and said there were some discussions that had begun between the Clinic and the Cleveland school system. He said, "You’ve just been back-doored..." Cosgrove said he had been thinking about it since October when he went to a boot camp, but I had been talking with them since July. So now, the Clinic proposes money and in-kind gift to hook up the Cleveland Schools to the OneCleveland network. It is a great program, but it will not rehire one school teacher and it will not reduce the tax burden on Cleveland citizens. I am afraid that unless the Mayor is willing to step up and take leadership, there will not be a pilot program in the City of Cleveland. Toby Cosgrove said, “We looked into these pilot (Payments In Lieu of Taxes) programs and they don’t work.” I would ask him to call the Mayor of Boston and ask him if the $13 million they get from forty non-profits isn’t working. Then call the Mayor of Pittsburgh, where they just signed an agreement with the city’s non-profits for $6 million.

So, are the Mayor and the School Superintendent behind you on this?
The Mayor sent me a letter that said she was interested, and then went on to speak in glowing terms about the Clinic, University Hospitals and Case, about all the wonderful things they do. She said she didn’t want to create unrealistic expectations with such a program and compared it with the Ohio Lottery, how that program created unrealistic expectations. But this is a modest Pilot program. You want to talk unrealistic programs? How about a casino for Cleveland? You want to talk about unrealistic programs? How about a convention center?

What about Barbara Byrd-Bennett?
She was quoted as saying she didn’t think the non-profits would cooperate. The Mayor sent copies of her letter to Hundert, Cosgrove at Cleveland Clinic, and [Tom] Zenty at University Hospitals. One of the board members at Case told me they are not happy they were not part of this discussion. Cosgrove went directly to the Schools. This is one tool, a Pilot program, and every tool has to be on the table.

What’s next? Charging all non-profits a tax? What about small arts groups and social service groups?
It is interesting you say that. At the press conference, Cosgrove suggested charging churches and synagogues. So, the Clinics earn $140 million and raised hundreds of millions towards a new heart center. Between University Hospitals and the Clinic, they billed $3 billion last year, and they are balking about paying about $3 million between the two of them; one of the board members said this is a slippery slope. If you raised $5 million for the schools, you could hire one hundred teachers.

You have a lot of stimulating ideas, and you seem to have the research and planning behind to back up those ideas. How do you think you’ll be able to gain support for those ideas in the community in order to get them implemented?
Well, in the case of Pilots, the idea will go nowhere unless the Mayor and Superintendent [support me]. Otherwise, I’ll be spinning my wheels.

Maybe then you should run for Mayor...
Like I said, I think the likelihood of a guy like me being Mayor is slim. But maybe it means we should elect new leadership that is willing to take risks. The last thing we need is a caretaker. One of Mayor Campbell's failings is she confused loyalty with competence, and with the exception of a few individuals, she assembled a very mediocre team. If you don’t have any vision of your own, hire the smartest people you can find who have a vision you can buy into. She waited too long to hire a chief of staff; when she finally got a chief of staff in Deb Janik, she didn’t listen to her.

What kind of programs can you have an effect on?
With the library idea, once the rug is pulled out from under them this summer, we’ll get back to the table and talk. But we’ve lost valuable time about how to retain some local control, about how to manage this crisis.

There’s always a debate about taxes in this state, but lately the state legislature has ramped up the rhetoric. And recently, Greater Cleveland Partnership has come out with their report, “Cleveland on the Edge” with one of the major conclusions that this region is taxed too heavily, and it is stunting our economic growth. At the same time, we hear that the cost of living in this region is very affordable. So, which is it?
I think the reality is that both statements are correct. If you compare this state around the country, the tax burden here is among the highest in the nation. That is true and they are right; they want you to believe that if we reduce that burden, businesses will flock to Northeast Ohio. But I’ve seen many studies that say taxes are not the major reason why people locate a business somewhere, mostly it's due to the quality of the workforce, education levels, education attainment levels. This is a tough way of saying this is a dumb area of the country. Very few people have a bachelors degrees, and I think the Mayor needs to declare a Marshall Plan for the economy of this region. We need to find a way to insure that every kid in this region who wants to go is guaranteed a college education, even if it is at Tri-C.

What else would be part of the Marshall Plan for the next Mayor?
I think they should have a plan to create an urban campus at Cleveland State University...

Like the University of Akron is doing. Why is it taking so long to develop a campus at Cleveland State?
The county and the city can use Port Authority bonds to start this development now, so many kids stay in Franklin County. Don’t tell me we can’t make it attractive for students from Ohio to come to Cleveland and stay in an urban campus.

Interview and images by Thomas Mulready (:divend:)