You're running for County Commissioner, a position you've held in the past. What are the major planks in your platform?
TH: I think you've got to talk about economic development in the community. And the need to work collectively, you've got to stop posturing on the issues. You've got to work with the Mayor, the city, the suburban towns, the federal officials, or you'll continue to decline. Two, I think I think it's long overdue that we look at some new form of county government. I think it's worth looking at.
How do you feel about the proposal to replace the three County Commissioners with a single chief executive?
TH: Let me be clear. You'll never get reform if it's the creation of one party, the Republican party, you need a consensus. You don't do it by saying it. The story about [Republican leaders] Trakas & Wise... it's the first time in my political memory - two Commissioners will be unopposed in the Fall election. Someone should be asking Trakas and Wise, if you [the Republicans] dominate the state government, why can't you find a strong candidate in this part of the state? If you get a consensus with labor, the minorities and the business communities, then the political community needs to come to a consensus. I'm for reform, but I will oppose that reform unless you make an effort to find a consensus.
Will you work for county reform?
TH: Yes, besides economic development, county reform is going to be very important.
Why did you decide to run for Commissioner?
TH: It's not strange for someone who ran for Governor, my whole life was public service since 1968. I have two daughters, I'm concerned with the direction of the community, the loss of jobs. Northeast Ohio is in trouble because we're not retaining what would be a talent base. When you look at Austin, Seattle or Portland, they all have what you would call the Creative Class. They all have technology, talent and tolerance. We have a major concern here now that we're not attracting the intellectual infrastructure to compete in a global market, not just against Columbus or Pittsburgh. We're off the national average for education, our whole commitment to education is 45th in the country. Courts have ruled on numerous occasions that the way we fund schools is unconstitutional. This race for community is very important, but more important is the race for the White House; they do not have an urban policy. There's only 1.38 million in the Cuyahoga County now. When I was elected commissioner in 1982, when Reagan was president, there was 1.7 million in the County.
Commissioner Jimmy Dimora told Cool Cleveland that you are bored, now that your wife had a big success on the Broadway stage and is getting a lot of work. How would you respond?
TH: My personal life is my personal life. I'm very proud of my wife, she's now in Palm Beach doing the life of Katherine Hepburn. I've done a number of things including run for Governor. Dimora might think that is boring, but it's not. I've been a trustee in Olmsted Township. I'm not bored at all. If you asked me 3 months ago if I was running, I would have said no. I'll be teaching at CWRU this year...
Do you expect that voter apathy will affect the vote?
TH: No, I think the presidential election on Super Tuesday could be very decisive, and Ohio will play a key role. We've lost 250,000 jobs in Ohio. I think the presidential election will bring out the vote. On March 2 there will be 250,000 voting, more than in all of New Hampshire. If it's still a race, and they're looking for delegates, you really haven't had that since 1984...
What specifically sets you apart from your opponent Tim McCormack?
TH: The legitimate answer is, you can make whatever promises you want. Look at the 16 years I was commissioner against the 8 years that McCormack has been Commissioner.
Could you be specific as to what he hadn't achieved...
TH: I'm not talking about his personal integrity, it's unquestioned; I've known him for 30 years, I'm talking about his judgments. The first order of business is to work together, you don't have any power unto yourself, you can't be an obstructionist. You need to be constructive. That doesn't mean that you can't have an honest opinion. The role of a Commissioner is to get things done. They've lost their focus.
Commissioners Dimora told Cool Cleveland that the current County Commissioners have a balanced budget with $100 million surplus...
TH: It's 81 million, and it's not a surplus, it's by the wise judgment of the budget department to keep their AAA bond rating. As to welfare reform, I give them high marks for efforts that were started on my way out. I think they've done a very good job integrating people into the economic system; those who don't have jobs.
Mayor Jane Campbell told Cool Cleveland that, unlike McCormack, you aren't looking for consensus among the three commissioners. Will you be working for consensus?
TH: The proof is in the judgments of what has been done in the past. [Mayor Michael] White and Hagan ran against each other for Mayor, when that election was over, it was my obligation to work with the Mayor of Cleveland. When Lee Weingart ran against me - now he's running McCormack's campaign. I've worked with [former Mayor George] Voinovich & White, I think the evidence is pretty clear, I'm willing to take a political stand. For example, the tag I've got is "Tax Hike Tim." I wear that as a badge of honor; I chaired every Human Services levy and Mental Retardation levy. When I put a levy on the ballot, I took an active interest in passing that levy. Why put it on if you're going to face defeat? You've got to go out to the voters.
People have said that you are being backed by the same big-money business and Republican leaders who worked to defeat you in your bid for Governor, simply because they want a convention center.
TH: I don't think the convention center was a wise decision the way they put it on and took it off. You need a consensus with the city council and the Mayors. In order to have a convention center, you need the Mayor, the community, the council and the suburban Mayors, it has to fit into a total plan as to how to re-vitalize the county, not just the city. I'm hopeful that these studies will come up with a plan that everyone can buy into. We have to have an idea that people can believe in. I have made no commitment to a convention center. Two, the people who supported me for governor are now my contributors. As yet, I haven't received any money that I'm aware of from [Republican Governor Bob]Taft supporters. Peter B. Lewis & Mort Mandel [have given me money], and they supported me for governor.
Who is backing you?
TH: I'm proud to say that AFL-CIO has endorsed me. I've proved that you can have consensus among different groups who are looking for new leadership. It's not an accident that labor endorsed me. As I said, I would have dropped out if not for the AFL-CIO endorsement.
Anything else that would make you drop out?
TH: No. I think we can offer a direction and get out of the malaise that we've gotten ourselves in.
Will you push for a convention center, even though studies have shown that the market is flat and virtually all new convention centers are losing money?
TH: My poll shows that the convention center loses almost 3 to 1. You don't promote something that is a dead-bang loser. I'm not so sure it's an immediate answer to the problems of the city, and I agree with the Mayor Campbell that you have to have a consensus. Let me make this clear, because most politicians rail against the Downtown interest. People need to understand how important that value of the Downtown building is to the tax base and the schools. Would that convention center enhance the value of the downtown buildings so you can increase the taxes on those buildings. By itself, the convention center is a loser, it loses money. But how do you attract... there's a book by Richard Florida on that topic - have you read it?
We're all over it...
TH: The commissioner has to offer a menu of offerings, technology, a tolerance, the vibrance of the community. I've put on the table to discuss a casino. Can it help? Is it morally reprehensible? No. The fact is, people from Ohio go to those places. Can we do it? I don't know, but I'm willing to discuss it. Are all these other people stupid in Detroit, Charleston, West Virginia, Indiana? We're losing hundreds of millions of dollars. So we ought to explore that, right? If you've read that book, people are not following jobs, they are moving to places that are better to live to raise their family.
You talk about tolerance, what's your opinion of the so-called "Defense of Marriage" bill passed by the Ohio legislature?
TH: I'm disgusted. One of the things is this demagogue-ing of homosexuality by the Republican party. Many creative people who happen to be gay would look at that kind of thing and find it absolutely disgusting, as would many people who are straight find it absolutely disgusting. They promote family values, I guess the representatives have a monopoly on how people have relationships.
What would you do to oppose it?
TH: One of the opportunities as a County Commissioner is to speak out. Some of the most vibrant, vital communities that are growing welcome a diversity and embrace people for their differences and their talents. We should say Cuyahoga County is a place that accepts diversity and we won't accept anything less.
Will you be supporting the upcoming county-wide economic development levy?
TH: It was ill-conceived the way they did it. They should have thought [about it.] The polling numbers look very tough. They have to raise 500K in 30 days. I'm inclined to vote for it. I wouldn't have done it that way. Who is chairing that levy? Which Commissioner is the spokesperson? I don't think there is one. You don't put it on the ballot and stand aside.
How will you support it?
TH: I'll vote Yes on it. I think it was ill-conceived. You've already got the Health & Human Service issue... One of the things I would do, I would go down to the legislature to allow counties to put on an arts issue, rather than an economic development levy. Voters will be looking at an economic development issue that will increase their property tax. People got their tax bill in January. Along with the Health and Human Services levy last year, a 4.9 mill levy, school levies went up, library levy went up, these are not the best of economic times. One would have to ask, was this the most thoughtful approach to supporting the arts? You need a vibrant arts community and that's what is at stake.
Many people, including city Mayors and the Commissioners, have been exploring the issue of regionalism, or eliminating the boundaries of all the municipalities in the county to create the 6th largest city in the US. What is your opinion of this?
TH: The people leaving this county are the better educated people, so all of the public programs are undermined. The best social program is a job. You're never going to do that. That's not going to happen. They've moved to those communities for better housing, better police, better schools and a feeling of safety. No one forced them to move out to Fairview Park. They moved out of homes that are 1000 square feet to 2000 square feet. They saw it as a better life...
Have we gotten a better life from these people moving out?
TH: Some of them have gotten a better life. Where I live in Olmsted Township, we have the best schools in the region. But the question is, are we better off without a public policy for urban sprawl, so there were a lot of people hurt by federal policies that encouraged people to move out.
Can we collaborate to get Homeland Security money or Federal Transportation dollars back to Cuyahoga County?
TH: I've been a proponent of Metro Health, I was a governmental relations director for Regional Transit to move the transit system county-wide.
Why can't we all get along? Why do young people say "fuck this" and leave?
TH: People look out for their own self-interest. We have the political posturing like Whiskey Island; the City and the County shouldn't be fighting over this. Tim McCormack had a fundraiser there and decided it would be nice to buy it. Prior to that, they were on a task force with the city to work that out. In the end, what does all this posturing mean? It should be, how can we best get this done? [Whiskey Island owner] Dan Moore had people fighting over it, and the price goes up.
Is this in-fighting hard-wired into our thinking here?
TH: I don't know that it's hard-wired. The Gateway project that Roldo may find unsavory only passed 51/49, but now we have ball clubs and people can go to a game. It took Mayor White, suburban Mayors as well as managers and the Commissioners to all get on board.
You were a big supporter of the Gateway project, which many people have criticized as a bad deal for the community, since they have never paid rent and even charge wear and tear items like new carpet off their bill. Looking back, would you have structured that deal any differently?
TH: It was the best deal we could make at the time because they were going to leave. Look at Houston & Oakland, in Los Angeles where they [the sports team] did leave. The deal was comparable to the Chicago White Sox, it was the best deal that we could make. I would have preferred that [Cleveland Indians owner Dick] Jacobs & [Cleveland Cavaliers owner Gordon] Gund would have contributed more. People can argue, but it still makes Cleveland a big-league city. People who argue just don't see sports as an integral part of the community; they say it's the arts. Can you imagine the town without Gateway, the Rock Hall, the ball club, the [Cleveland Browns] stadium, the Science Center?
Does the promotion of alcohol and the misogynistic treatment of women by sports promotion bother you, as a public official? Why don't the millionaire owners and players participate more in philanthropy in the Cleveland community?
TH: The Gund family and the Jacobs' have given to Metro Hospital, and I would doubt that there are few ball players...it's a business, not a philanthropic organization. They're in business to make money. The Browns & Indians have a charity. Turning women into things, I agree with you there, but there's freedom of expression. They obscenely sell a lot of beer as a result of it.
What other issues are you passionate about?
TH: The #1 issue is jobs. I have had a strong commitment to public services and will continue to be an advocate for the weak and the poor and those left out of those opportunities. What was my best contribution over 16 years? My commitment to health & human services and mental retardation was in the top ten in the country. That has been my greatest contribution. I will continue to fight on both levels. You have to fight for economic development. People don't understand it's not a socialist society, you can say good-bye and good riddance, but they can up and move and take their businesses.
What types of industries do you see this region attracting?
TH: In 1988, it was the first time you had more service industries in this region than manufacturing. You follow the lead of Team NEO? and the bio sciences and the things they're doing at CWRU.
Why is there not a culture of risk here?
TH: We lived off our manufacturing base, the corporate leaders in the town were manufacturers. Now what you've seen is people like [Al] Lerner with [credit card company] MBNA; they've increased jobs here. That, and Progressive Insurance - no one would have thought that they would increase jobs like they have here.
Is the future of our region the ISG Steel solution, where you buy it for pennies on the dollar, while the federal government picks up the tab for the pensions?
TH: ISG is atleast being competitive and holding their own. I think you're right to look at the future economy, not the past economy. You look at CWRU, we have a critical mass in biotechnology, we have some major corporations here that are involved with that as well. You have to go with what you have, and build upon that. There's not a silver bullet that's going to turn us around in 3 or 4 years. It's going to be a slog every day to attract the intellectual capital that you need. One of the sadder things is that our brighter minds are leaving.
What about Jump Start?, the new group formed from NEOpreneur and Nortech, attempting to bring a higher risk-taking profile to the region?
TH: People have to understand that there is no sure bet. People have bet and lost, but if you win something, you've got to keep them here. In Pittsburg, Carnegie Mellon [University] developed Alta Vista [search engine], and then they left and went to Boston. You've got to make the kind of investments and make the kind of risks to attract those kinds of people who want to take these kind of risks.
What about Cleveland's low-risk financial and venture capital communities?
TH: One thing you don't do is attack the banking and labor communities and others who are involved. You have to understand that all these people will have options. Bank One left Columbus and went to Chicago and is being bought. You're putting your head in the sand if you don't recognize that this is happening. Do you want National City Corporation here or not?
What do you propose to do about it?
TH:You work closely with the investment vehicles and work in a collective way. There is a substantial amount of money out there. Some of that venture capital wasn't used. Why aren't people screaming for it? We have to create a demand. It looks like the Foundations are working together to put together a significant investment fund. As a community, I would work with them, they are less suspect than other groups, let's see what plan they come out with. You don't have to re-create the wheel. Let them take the lead, it's been the foundation communities and the political and business communities taking their lead. There's the challenge of creating something that the people here are voting for you. You're speaking to a constituency that's not here.
We seem to rely on old solutions.
TH: I don't entirely agree. Look at Information Technology, most of the organizations in this community use IT, it's not like they are living off the post WWII dominance. They realize they have to compete. Major corporations are not saying they are living in the past. You have to assure people that you're grounded in the immediate needs, while addressing the future needs. You can't say to the Human Services community that we've done enough. They have to be just as concerned about attracting new opportunities, we're all in this together. It's hard to make people understand this. All of these $3 million ballplayers, everyone has choices to make. They are intertwined in the possibility of what's going to happen. They can't escape it. I'm running for Commissioner again 'cause I've got nine brothers and sisters living in this county.
But people do escape to suburbia to try to escape from the problems of the city.
TH: If we don't change the pubic policy of this country, this disparity will hurt this country. You cannot run the federal government by giving tax breaks to people making 200K or more, or by giving tax breaks to businesses. These old urban areas are in trouble. They need strong voices speaking out against these politics that undermine...we all pay taxes here. You talked about the mentality of business. These businesses have stockholders to answer to.
How does a leader get people to look beyond the short term?
TH: You can't get people to say, hey, do us this favor. You say we're going to say, we'll create an environment to support those long term decisions. You be the president of the bank, they have to answer to. You could get Fannie Mae, let's get together with the bank in the city of Cleveland, let's tear down those 12,000 buildings, clean them up, and say, will you give us the wherewithal to build houses? I'm not just talking about the city of Cleveland, but Maple Heights, Lakewood, the poor of the community. You have to attack this all the way through. You've got to have an attitude of we can do this. Other people have done it. If we pass economic development levy, you go sit with the people at the cutting edge, and say you've got $10 million a year. That's not much money. Instead, go pass a bond issue, maybe you could invest it in a bond issue to get $250-300 million [use the $10 million per year to pay down the bond, rather than spend it], then you've got something to work with. You've got to think beyond the scope. You've got to bring people together and say, we want to be a player, CSU, CWRU, the foundations and you've got leadership. Why would you do this, they ask? Everyone is suspect. Let the foundations, who are less suspect, come up with a plan. Let them come up with a plan, and we'll buy into it. I must tell you I don't know how much of an impact the Quiet Crisis has had. How do you measure what thoughtful people are thinking? How do you measure it? How many people are reading what you're writing? I asked Brent Larkin at the PD. Give me the numbers. You may want to do this. E-mail me back, how many people read the paper cover to cover? Do you read the editorials? Does it have an effect?
People tell me they don't read the paper.
TH: There's a weak question of the disconnect with information. In 57, not 37. People are not engaged as they once were, they don't read.
We have more news sources, yet people seem less informed.
TH: Take the weekly alternatives. What do they do? The way they make news is attacking people. Their whole thing, is it significant news on the personality page, it's like People Magazine. It's a trite response, not like they used to. One of the finest pieces I've read is in New York Times magazine on "Sex for Sale in America." The best piece of journalism in a long time.
How do we make the connection with people today, they're not engaged?
TH: If door-to-door retail politics is so important, why do they put millions into television? I've got 36 days left in the campaign. If you saw 1000 people a night, that would be 36,000, would you assume that all of them would vote, or vote for you?
In the end it's going to be determined by tv.
TH: It's going to be determined by name recognition; do people really know who I am? Have you ever met me? Do they know who I am, what I stand for. They have a public perception" He's pretty liberal..." whatever they're thinking. It's an interesting process. It's not an affirmation or a rejection of your personality.
So you use the media to create or reinforce an image.
So Dean is bombastic or Edwards is slick, but they're all just handles you use. Do people have any real sense of who these people are...
So what do you do?
TH: In my mind, to this day, Fritz Mondale was a better human being than [Ronald] Reagan. Mo Udall was...I look at it as, is this the ultimate judge of a person? You accept the judgment, what's the option?
TH: Retirement, I guess. My daughters are 16 and 14, I look forward to being able to spend some time with them. Even in the governor's race, I set some time aside.
Interview by Thomas Mulready
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